Dundee Gun (DG) on a Spit
Bali, Dundee & Lisbon Swivel Guns
Compared
These swivel guns are compared because they are the closest to the Dundee Gun, to which we have been granted access by the finder/owner Christopher Doukas. Staff of The Bali Museum, at Denpasar, kindly spent some considerable time examining and measuring the gun. Knowledge of the Lisbon Gun (LG) is derived solely from what has been cropped out of a general view of the private gardens of historian Rainer Daehnhardt in Lisbon. His collection of >500,000 items is being curated and efforts to contact him will continue as he is a passionate supporter of the theory of Portuguese discovery of Australia.
Abbreviations:- BG (Bali Gun) - DG (Dundee Gun) - LG (Lisbon Gun).
Muzzle
The Bali Gun (BG) has a reinforce at the base of the muzzle section – gentle concave sweep outwards to a reinforce ring & step to a convex cushion base of the muzzle disc. No indication of a foresight.
Barrel Crown
The BG Crown is a 3 step features resembling an octagonal brass locking nut on a pipe fitting. The eight points show little sign of wear suggesting the gun was seldom moved. The central and final step is a circular projection providing additional protection around the bore.
The DG appears more similar to the LG although the imagery is deficient. There is no evidence of a foresight or stepped reinforcing. There is a nick where Mr. Doukas snr used an angle grinder to reveal the the brass fabric. There is no evidence of harsh cleaning of the Crown nor any signs of abrasive wear.
The DG appears more similar to the LG although the imagery is deficient. There is no evidence of a foresight or stepped reinforcing. There is a nick where Mr. Doukas snr used an angle grinder to reveal the the brass fabric. There is no evidence of harsh cleaning of the Crown nor any signs of abrasive wear.
|
|
Barrel
BG is tapering steadily from the 2nd trunnion reinforce – there are no others before the muzzle section.
DG barrel has a flat area on the lateral midline, half-way down its length. Casting fault, filing of midline seam or differential corrosion are possibilities.
The LG combines the robust breech and trunnions of the BG with the gracile refinements of the DG at muzzle and cascabel.
Paucity of imagery of the LG gun may contribute artefacts to the imagery e.g. elongation of the barrel.
DG barrel has a flat area on the lateral midline, half-way down its length. Casting fault, filing of midline seam or differential corrosion are possibilities.
The LG combines the robust breech and trunnions of the BG with the gracile refinements of the DG at muzzle and cascabel.
Paucity of imagery of the LG gun may contribute artefacts to the imagery e.g. elongation of the barrel.
Trunnions
No visible wear on the BG trunnions.
BG Trunnions set on midline of barrel as in the Dundee Gun.
It is not possible to say whether or not the loaded weapon would balance on the trunnions. Even if it did so pivot, this could not be in a yoke on a wooden gunnel ~ wall mounted or on a bespoke frame.
The DG left trunnion appears to be a repair as the density is significantly different in the CT scan.
BG Trunnions set on midline of barrel as in the Dundee Gun.
It is not possible to say whether or not the loaded weapon would balance on the trunnions. Even if it did so pivot, this could not be in a yoke on a wooden gunnel ~ wall mounted or on a bespoke frame.
The DG left trunnion appears to be a repair as the density is significantly different in the CT scan.
|
|
Rear Sight
Floreate design – close resemblance of DG, BG and LG examples. Possibly the signature feature of a particular gun founder/foundry.
Chaplets
There is only a narrow gap between the forward breech arch and the first reinforce of the trunnions in the Bali & Lisbon guns. The single iron chaplet in the DG has 4 cardinal points protruding to the surface which radiate from a hub which would have supported the iron rod that formed the barrel core during casting.
No chaplets were detected by magnet applied to surface of BG which retains the original exterior surface and may mask the chaplet ends.
No chaplets were detected by magnet applied to surface of BG which retains the original exterior surface and may mask the chaplet ends.
Iron chaplet point in the Dundee Gun
Breech Cavity
The BG patination is consistent throughout the cavity and the entire visible weapon including the barrel head.
The DG has distinct colour variation - darker - suggesting the prolonged presence of a powder mug/cartridge.
The LG shows similar discolouration within the breech cavity indicative of the presence of a mug.
The DG has distinct colour variation - darker - suggesting the prolonged presence of a powder mug/cartridge.
The LG shows similar discolouration within the breech cavity indicative of the presence of a mug.
Lisbon Gun breech has been lightened to show internal discolouration.
Breech Shoulders
The BG has a single step down to the breech arch which increases the size and strength of the nozzle of the cartridge mug.
DG has two steps delineating a saddle in the breech shoulders.
These steps are always deeply incised though their purpose is unclear - there is no obvious wear from being strapped to the gunnel or receiving other insults.
DG has two steps delineating a saddle in the breech shoulders.
These steps are always deeply incised though their purpose is unclear - there is no obvious wear from being strapped to the gunnel or receiving other insults.
Breech Front
The BG arch is extended back over the breech shoulders. Robust, unadorned.
The DG has 50% of the barrel retaining the sand and shell anticipating future developments in OSL dating. There are signs of wear at the barrel lip.
The DG has 50% of the barrel retaining the sand and shell anticipating future developments in OSL dating. There are signs of wear at the barrel lip.
Bali gun breech arch
|
Dundee Gun breech arch
|
Breech Back
The BG breech is extremely robust – splayed out at the sides and downwards. Shoulders are flared – back beyond the breech baseline – like epaulettes. A feature replicated in the LG.
Dundee Gun breech base
|
Bali gun breech base
|
Breech Slot
The slot runs the length of the open breech cavity. Edges are crisp.
DG slot is short and centrally positioned – likely for drainage given water’s resistance to compression. A real danger at sea & in the tropics.
The external face of the slot appears to have been filed flat. Perhaps trimming of casting seepage.
DG slot is short and centrally positioned – likely for drainage given water’s resistance to compression. A real danger at sea & in the tropics.
The external face of the slot appears to have been filed flat. Perhaps trimming of casting seepage.
Bali Gun Breech Slot
|
Dundee Gun Breech Slot
|
Breech Underside
BG Not easily accessible though feels rounded.
DG shows distinct boxing of the breech – perhaps supporting the notion of flat casting in boxes.
DG shows distinct boxing of the breech – perhaps supporting the notion of flat casting in boxes.
Dundee Gun underside of breech
|
Dundee Gun underside of breech
|
Breech Socket
There is a rectangular socket at the rear of the breech opening to the end of the tiller cavity. It is centrally located in the slot that receives the retaining drift.
The DG has a similar slot in the same location. It is rectangular though the top of the cavity is arched such that a shaped shaft would only fit one way up. It may simply be wear and corrosion but is regular.
It was thought that this may allow gas to escape during firing or a locking mechanism for the tiller to which this slot gives open access. It would also enable a blow to dislodge the tiller for storage. It further weakens the base of the breech so must be critical and that would suggest the drainage of water which does not compress.
n.b. the bent BG tiller suggests that it has been more than an ornament on occasion.
The DG has a similar slot in the same location. It is rectangular though the top of the cavity is arched such that a shaped shaft would only fit one way up. It may simply be wear and corrosion but is regular.
It was thought that this may allow gas to escape during firing or a locking mechanism for the tiller to which this slot gives open access. It would also enable a blow to dislodge the tiller for storage. It further weakens the base of the breech so must be critical and that would suggest the drainage of water which does not compress.
n.b. the bent BG tiller suggests that it has been more than an ornament on occasion.
Rear Breech Socket comparison of Dundee & Bali Swivel Guns
Chain Loop
BG has no loop to retain a chain for the locking drift.
DG has a loop that is not worn or corroded and shows signs of being a repair.
BG is much larger, perhaps a static piece of artillery – ranged upright for plunging fire and attended by dedicated artillery crews.
DG has a loop that is not worn or corroded and shows signs of being a repair.
BG is much larger, perhaps a static piece of artillery – ranged upright for plunging fire and attended by dedicated artillery crews.
Dundee Gun chain loop
|
Dundee Gun chain loop
|
Missing Parts of Dundee Gun
Cascabel
BG Onion/Tulip bulb shaped & straight along line of the barrel.
DG is slumped downwards, bulging the lower side. Perhaps the cascabel sagged under the weight of the tiller when heated during repair of the chain loop. It wouldn't bulge if cast deliberately downwards as that would stretch and weaken the top of the socket.
BG rear of breech is convex - it curves outwards like a cushion to support the cascabel.
DG is straight, conical.
LG is fluted with an additional base step.
DG is slumped downwards, bulging the lower side. Perhaps the cascabel sagged under the weight of the tiller when heated during repair of the chain loop. It wouldn't bulge if cast deliberately downwards as that would stretch and weaken the top of the socket.
BG rear of breech is convex - it curves outwards like a cushion to support the cascabel.
DG is straight, conical.
LG is fluted with an additional base step.
Bali Gun Cascabel
|
Dundee Gun CT
|
Lisbon Gun Cascabel
|
Tiller
In the Bali Gun the tiller is level with the barrel. DG tiller is downcast.
DG Tiller arm is straight & rounded on the exterior – perhaps sweated onto the cascabel soon after casting. Perhaps detachable but now held by iron corrosion swelling.
DG has a square receiving socket – not straight & level but rotated ~ 15º.
DG Tiller arm is straight & rounded on the exterior – perhaps sweated onto the cascabel soon after casting. Perhaps detachable but now held by iron corrosion swelling.
DG has a square receiving socket – not straight & level but rotated ~ 15º.
Dundee Gun Tiller Socket
|
Dundee Gun Tiller Socket
|
Patination
BG patination is consistent overall.
DG shows colour and corrosion variance below the midline – suggesting prolonged partial submersion in a clay bottom that has increased leeching of copper resulting in the apparent excess of lead in XRF assay.
The extreme contrast between the barrel crown and the rest of the DG is unexplained.
The similar breech patination in the DG and LG guns suggests that both contained a breech mug for an extended period.
DG shows colour and corrosion variance below the midline – suggesting prolonged partial submersion in a clay bottom that has increased leeching of copper resulting in the apparent excess of lead in XRF assay.
The extreme contrast between the barrel crown and the rest of the DG is unexplained.
The similar breech patination in the DG and LG guns suggests that both contained a breech mug for an extended period.
Corrosion
Following the disintegration of the large bronze cannon in WA described by Jeremy Green - there is concern over any bronze object that has experienced long saltwater submersion - an adverse situation exacerbated by warm, shallow Tropical seas settling out fine aluminium rich blue clay.
|
|
|
General Impressions
The overall effect is purposeful but not austere. The gracile design belies the brutality of purpose whilst the consistency of patination infers material and craftsmanship of the highest quality.
It seems unlikely that the weapon was ever fired and would have been redundant long before the 1906 Puputan slaughter by the Dutch.
The DG is otherwise - displaying wear and repairs to the chain loop and the trunnions. It does however sport signature features which would once have resonated clearly with those of the Bali gun. The trunnions section of the Dundee Gun is the equal of the Bali Gun, at least in design. Other stylistic comparisons are unflattering given that one resides in a palace - the other castaway upon an unregarded shore.
It seems unlikely that the weapon was ever fired and would have been redundant long before the 1906 Puputan slaughter by the Dutch.
The DG is otherwise - displaying wear and repairs to the chain loop and the trunnions. It does however sport signature features which would once have resonated clearly with those of the Bali gun. The trunnions section of the Dundee Gun is the equal of the Bali Gun, at least in design. Other stylistic comparisons are unflattering given that one resides in a palace - the other castaway upon an unregarded shore.
The Bali Gun in the now tranquil grounds of the Denpasar Museum Dec. 2024
PastMaster Michael Hermes on Dundee Beach late August 2025 in pursuit of the truant Chamber Mug.
Conclusion
We are extremely fortunate that the Dundee Gun survives thanks to the Doukas family who are the custodians. We have heard of various relics, coins, bells etc. found at Dundee but none have come to light. We have also heard of a second more ornate and larger bronze swivel gun found at the mouth of the Finniss River - it was last seen at the Berry Springs Tip having been swept up in a Clean Up Australia purge. Also a lady brought a bronze breech mug into the Museum during lunch hour and was asked to come back later - she departed without leaving her name and address - never to be seen again.
At the Bali Museum, the curator expressed his gratitude for our visit as they had been speculating for many years upon how the gun actually worked. Likewise during our 2025 'soiree', at the Garden's Golf Club, it became apparent that most people do not know how these things work which greatly reduces their chance of survival as early contact artefacts.
At the Bali Museum, the curator expressed his gratitude for our visit as they had been speculating for many years upon how the gun actually worked. Likewise during our 2025 'soiree', at the Garden's Golf Club, it became apparent that most people do not know how these things work which greatly reduces their chance of survival as early contact artefacts.
Swivel Gun Spit Roast
Dundee Swivel Gun on a spit
Dundee Swivel Gun on a spit
|
Dundee Swivel Gun on a spit
|
Reference
The Lantaka is the archetypal SE Asian swivel gun found throughout the region.
Chinese 19C
|
Lantaka 17-18C Indo - Malay
|
Corrosion
Bronze rots and the process will continue in the air unless treated. The removal of Chlorine Ions and similar salts and treatment with a benzotriazole & Ethanol solution is essential.
|
|
Orangemund
|
Orangemund
|
Orangemund